Curse

Cass · Jan 07, 2007, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Testing game mechanics... fair enough, but please realize that what goes in 6v6 may not go in 8v8. The majority of people in the polls and threads wanted 8v8 back, please make it happen.

midnight caretaker · Jan 07, 2007, 02:11 AM // 02:11

I said it may help people get into higher ranked grps the point of that was if a lower ranked grp beats a higher ranked grp they get more fame for that win as opposed to getting x amount of fame for beating a grp of the same rank. Same thing for higher ranked grps beating a lower ranked grp they get less fame than they would beating a grp of the same rank.

Why is a balanced grp called a balanced grp anyways it does not have a character from each class when it was 8v8 they would have 3 monks so actually they would be a defensive build and the gimmick build that these balanced players always complain about would be offensive. For all you gimmick/iway/fotm haters out there if you are so good the other teams build wont make a difference besides that all you would have is your own little build fighting its duplicate over and over. That sounds pretty lame to me.

Finally, pvp is not the main focus of guild wars and never has been there has always been more pve players (not including pve/pvp players such as myself). Take all the people currently in HA/TA/GVG/Etc and that will not match the numbers of people in explorable areas and towns this could change though due to people leaving the game because issues like this are never addressed. Gaile Grey has said before that the elite mission entrance was a mistake that should be fixed but never was and from the looks of it never will be, this is probably why favor system has never been changed as well. Has there ever been a poll here or another website asking the customers if they want the favor system in place or have it removed if so i never saw it and from the threads concern this topic it is obvious that the gw community would llike it removed? That is how GW should go about making a choice on removing it or not. If thats the way they intended it fine but it still doesnt change the fact that it is not liked by the community.

Does-it-Matter · Jan 07, 2007, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

Wrong. Implementing a system where ranked teams fight teams of the same rank would cause people to grow weaker, not stronger. If you do not fight truly superb teams, what are you ever going to learn?

Since you're fighting your peers, I'd say it would teach you how to beat your peers. Did that? Cool! Move on to the next tier, and your new peers.

Quote:

Also, this would probably break the rank system even further (if possible). If something like this were implemented, nothing below a tiger would have even the smallest semblance of meaning, as the players have most likely not faced all that many competitive teams.

All the ranks would have meaning. They would display which tier you were at. It's not like you're being held back from attaining your "Rank 9++" or what not. It's just adding more meaning to the inbetween ranks rather than "inconvenient stepping stones til the Cool 9'er."

Quote:

The better the team you face, whether you're winning or losing, the more you learn if you're paying attention.

Perhaps it would be a way for individual players to:

A) Make progress
B) Learn something (after all, if you win, you're doing something right, until you lose, upon which you've had bad luck or doing something wrong.)
C) Get into parties if they aren't the "beginning" PvP rank of 9 or whatever the trendie rank is now.

Quote:

Also, a rank system like this would allow more players to get farther

Damn dude, you're so totally right! We can't have these n00bs making progress in the game they paid as much for as you did... you like so totally showed me the light.

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clogging up the HoH map and resulting in long wait times.

I'm sure you can use the minute or two more this might add to somehow advance the goal of world peace.

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The most important problem with this though is that the lower rankings would mean NOTHING as they would not have played against real competition.

How would it mean anything different than what it does now? The rank shows your current level of experience.

Under this hypothetical update, having a Rank of three would indicate you have triumphed over all tiers 0-2 and are currently working for that Tier 4 rank.

Stop looking at it as "how many R9++ must I beat until I, myself, am a R9++" and start looking at it as "getting to Tier 9."

---

Let's look at this from the perspective of a company. More users = more copies of game = more money for ANet, correct?

If you can't get into a team without being of Rank Y, but you can't get Rank Y without first getting into a team.... but first you need to get Rank Y to get into that team... which requires you to have Rank Y.

Does that endless loop look friendly for new players?

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Jan 07, 2007, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Quote:

How would it mean anything different than what it does now? The rank shows your current level of experience.

I'm sure you can use the minute or two more this might add to somehow advance the goal of world peace.

Sorry, only felt like quoting a few things, although there was a lot more I would like to quote from multiple posts.

The reason rank would mean less is two-fold. First, if you're playing only people around your rank, chances are you played fewer battles. Second, if someone has only played against someone their rank, they haven't seen as skilled players yet and thus have not learned as much... do I really need to explain this? Less exposure=less experience. If a system was implemented to make rank to obtain3, people simply set my rank requirements higher, making rank worth less. Also, if you knew anything about HA, you'd know that more teams in halls would result in a lot longer wait than a few minutes (3 teams every 6 minutes, if you have say 6 teams reaching their due to teams getting farther from rank set up matches, you do the math). Also, all I ever hear is rank discrimination. For the large part, it is skill discrimination. I know several r3s I regularly play with because they're good, even though I'm a much higher rank. I don't care about rank, I care about skill, it's just that the average person below r6 or so has no clue wtf they're doing, FACT.

Quote:

Finally, pvp is not the main focus of guild wars and never has been there has always been more pve players (not including pve/pvp players such as myself). Take all the people currently in HA/TA/GVG/Etc and that will not match the numbers of people in explorable areas and towns this could change though due to people leaving the game because issues like this are never addressed.

K, if PvE is the main focus of Guild Wars, send me an invitation to the next PvE world championship that anet hosts. Thanks.

Ras Kass · Jan 07, 2007, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Does-it-Matter

Damn dude, you're so totally right! We can't have these n00bs making progress in the game they paid as much for as you did... you like so totally showed me the light.

I'm pretty sure he means progressing through the maps to create the congestion at halls, so how you think 20 min waits in the vault is a good thing really confuses me. Also, getting farther through the maps is not a sign of progress (as you seem to think) but rather beating skilled opponents regardless of the map. This is like saying winning halls after a skip from the zaishen shows you have an equal skill level to a group that won on every map, up to and including halls. Make sense? Nope.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Jan 07, 2007, 02:58 AM // 02:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ras Kass

I'm pretty sure he means progressing through the maps to create the congestion at halls, so how you think 20 min waits in the vault is a good thing really confuses me. Also, getting farther through the maps is not a sign of progress (as you seem to think) but rather beating skilled opponents regardless of the map. This is like saying winning halls after a skip from the zaishen shows you have an equal skill level to a group that won on every map, up to and including halls. Make sense? Nope.

QFT, pretty much sums it up. Didn't bother responding to this in my previous post, thus this post.

Loviatar · Jan 07, 2007, 03:06 AM // 03:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

K, if PvE is the main focus of Guild Wars, send me an invitation to the next PvE world championship that anet hosts. Thanks.

will this quote from JEFF STRAIN suffice?

Quote:

Evil Avatar News: Guild Wars seems to be a pretty hardcore PvP type game. How does Factions supplement the core game in terms of additional appeal? Has there been an effort made to entice people who didn't like Guild Wars? Have there been any creative strides toward doing unique PvE situations?

JS: Well, I think Guild Wars has excellent PvP, especially in the online role-playing genre, in fact itâ€™s the only game with well-designed well-balanced PvP; but that doesnt mean the game is a hardcore PvPer's game. Guild Wars started life as a role-playing game, and we continue to support that very strongly. Our goal was always for the PvP aspect to be played after youâ€™ve built up your character and played through the role-playing content

fenix · Jan 07, 2007, 03:07 AM // 03:07

Strange quote, because it goes against every other quote from every other Anet Employee.

Deleet · Jan 07, 2007, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Just because most players are playing PvE doesn't mean it's PvE focused, it just means people are:

1) Stupid, dumb or too low skill level to compete in serious gameplay.
2) Wants to relax a bit from serious gameplay/hard day at work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

will this quote from JEFF STRAIN suffice?

Marketing discision.
He mostly agrees that Guild Wars is PvP orientated, compared to any other MMORPG/CORPG, but also has PvE elements, like the story lines etc..

PvE is either training or relaxing.

Loviatar · Jan 07, 2007, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by talon

Strange quote, because it goes against every other quote from every other Anet Employee.

here is the interview read it yourself.

about halfway down the first page

http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12122

Relambrien · Jan 07, 2007, 03:21 AM // 03:21

I get the feeling that heated arguments about whether GW is PvE- or PvP-focused is going to cause trouble...if we're going to discuss it, please try to keep it level-headed. Don't let this turn into another one of the so many locked threads about HA...

While Prophecies seemed to want to take players from PvE into PvP (see the Ascension missions; they're each a different sort of HA goal. Elona Reach = relic run, Dunes of Despair = altar, and Thirsty River = annihilation), I believe I'm correct in saying that Anet doesn't mind how you play the game. There are PvE'ers and there are PvP'ers, they play the game differently, but it's the same game and from my experience, equal attention has been paid to both.

That said, would it be possible to get back on track about what Gaile has posted? For instance, has anyone noticed that the skill update, which is supposed to be in mid-January, could very well take place just before the weekend of the 19th? If this is the case, it'll be interesting to see the kind of changes made to both HA and the skills, and how they'll affect each other.

EDIT: For the sake of debate:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Strain

Our goal was always for the PvP aspect to be played after youâ€™ve built up your character and played through the role-playing content

Does this not imply that Anet wanted people to play PvE, and then once they've beaten the game, move into PvP?

Loviatar · Jan 07, 2007, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deleet

Just because most players are playing PvE doesn't mean it's PvE focused, it just means people are:

1) Stupid, dumb or too low skill level to compete in serious gameplay.
2) Wants to relax a bit from serious gameplay/hard day at work.

i call total bs on this.

most are doing pve but it is not pve focused?...............good thinking

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Jan 07, 2007, 03:28 AM // 03:28

Most people aren't voting for president, yet isn't the government voting focused?

Loviatar · Jan 07, 2007, 03:29 AM // 03:29

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relambrien

EDIT: For the sake of debate:
Does this not imply that Anet wanted people to play PvE, and then once they've beaten the game, move into PvP?[/QUOTE]

very true.

JEFF STRAIN in a follow up interview stated surprise at the great number of people who wanted to continue PVE with their chracters instead of jumping on the PVP bandwagon.

Relambrien · Jan 07, 2007, 03:38 AM // 03:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

very true.

JEFF STRAIN in a follow up interview stated surprise at the great number of people who wanted to continue PVE with their chracters instead of jumping on the PVP bandwagon.

Now, is it not logical to say that the game was designed with a PvP'er majority in mind (assuming those who have completed PvE move into PvP), and that it is the playerbase who are deciding to play PvE more often? Just because the majority of players play PvE doesn't mean the game was designed with the philosophy of that happening; it was the players who made it so.

Let's use an example. Early on, Underworld soloing with Protective Bond was fairly common; it was the predecessor of the 55. Protective Bond was designed with the philosophy that it could be used to greatly and reliably mitigate the damage an ally takes. It was the PLAYERS who turned it into a farming tool, am I right?

Now for a real-world example. Thousands of years ago, writing was developed as a means of record keeping. The PEOPLE turned it into a tool for leisurely communication, although it was not designed as such.

See what I'm getting at? PvE and PvP aren't any better than one another; Guild Wars was designed so that the majority of players would be PvPers but these players decided they would rather continue PvE. This doesn't make the game focused to one or the other either. I think Anet has generally paid ample attention to both PvE and PvP. The fact that they are treating both sides of their game with great care and seriousness leads me to believe that ArenaNet will continue to be a player-oriented company that listens to its customers.

Isileth · Jan 07, 2007, 03:51 AM // 03:51

I know I would love to get into HA. Do I know much about it? No. I dont know the maps, I dont know the common builds. Because of this if I can get 1-2 games a day im doing well. So im new, I suck. I can accept that. How do I get better? I practice...but I cant because I dont get enough games and when I do we end up getting destroyed by a much higher rank team.

There isnt an easy way into HA right now, even if say the first two maps in the rotation stopped you playing against anyone more than 3 ranks higher than you that would be great. It wouldnt let just anyone get to halls but it would allow new players to get a few wins, learn the game and get better. In the end I play for fun but when you are in such a situation where you spend no more than 10% of your time ingame actually playing and even then its not exactly a riviting experience.

Now Im sure people will say make some friends get in a good guild, I would love to. I really would. But its just not that simple, there are only a few guilds ive ever seen looking for new players or offering to help. Even then it seems its more to fill up on numbers to make sure if someone leaves they can keep playing. Game time is still very limited and your not exactly learning much by having a bunch of players many ranks higher than you doing all the work. Really I think anything that will let new players get into the game more easily can only help it on the whole.

LL ShadowIX LL · Jan 07, 2007, 03:53 AM // 03:53

I agree that the rank system needs to be reworked. I keep trying to play in HA but because of my non-existant rank (PvP wasnt important to me when the game first came out) i cant get into any gorups, im a competant pvper now (from GvG, and other PvP aspects) but it seems that the only groups i can get into are "fun" and "casual" groups who get completely dominated in the first minute of play. I think there needs to be a way to play either "Ranked" or "Unranked" somehow. Or even by making other ways to get fame (liek a "Random Arena meets HA" kind of pvp). If rank was attainable other ways it woudl make HA a bit less elitist, considering rank only means how many matches you've won (or farmed).

Avarre · Jan 07, 2007, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relambrien

I get the feeling that heated arguments about whether GW is PvE- or PvP-focused is going to cause trouble...if we're going to discuss it, please try to keep it level-headed. Don't let this turn into another one of the so many locked threads about HA...

This person is wise, and possibly even prescient!

Do not derail this thread on the topic of PvE vs PvP. If you must discuss it, you can make a new thread for the topic and appeal to JR to not axe it.

Randomway Ftw · Jan 07, 2007, 04:21 AM // 04:21

To anyone who continues to complain about rank, I have one thing to say to you, QQ more.

Honestly this topic has been discussed to death, its irritating when we have people complain and complain without actual making any move to help themselves, get off your ass, and do something about it, no one started off high ranked, so you can and will get fame if you try.

Some suggestions include, start your own groups, and add the people who play well to your friendslist, and invite them to future groups. PM the leaders of low ranked groups i.e. R3+, to let you in, inform them that you know what your doing, and ask to get in. Try to find a guild that plays HA so that you can regularly get a group. More suggestions are in the HA forum.

Deleet · Jan 07, 2007, 04:26 AM // 04:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomway Ftw

To anyone who continues to complain about rank, I have one thing to say to you, QQ more.

Honestly this topic has been discussed to death, its irritating when we have people complain and complain without actual making any move to help themselves, get off your ass, and do something about it, no one started off high ranked, so you can and will get fame if you try.

Some suggestions include, start your own groups, and add the people who play well to your friendslist, and invite them to future groups. PM the leaders of low ranked groups i.e. R3+, to let you in, inform them that you know what your doing, and ask to get in. Try to find a guild that plays HA so that you can regularly get a group. More suggestions are in the HA forum.

It requires will and courage - but the result is awesome